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This page: Songs That Write Themselves; The Cancer of Pop Culture
'If I believe in a song, there's no talking me out of it. If I don't, there's a chance.'
Songs That Write Themselves
What song on East Autumn Grin was the hardest to write?
Probably "Me & My Lover." I was trying to talk about some sort of New Year's resolution to your spirit or your soul. When it started coming, that's where I thought it was going, but it didn't go there at all. I had to follow it and not let what I thought it was gonna be get in the way. I was having an internal struggle with what I wanted to say versus where it was going. That can be frustrating, and it initially undermined what I thought the song was worth -- I ended up thinking it sucked [laughs]. But then I was playing it for people and seeing what they thought. It got a lot of positive responses, so I had to re-evaluate it.
So other people's opinions can affect your feelings about your own songs?
People who are close to me, people I care about.
Have you ever changed a song, based on someone's feedback?
If I believe in a song, there's no talking me out of it. If I don't believe in a song, there's a chance.
Do you ever listen back to your work and critique it from a technical standpoint?
I only listen to my own stuff when I haven't been creative for a while and it seems like I've forgotten how to be. It's kind of like looking at a handsome photograph of myself and saying, "I guess I do look like that sometimes" [laughs]. I don't really think about it. I don't know what my strengths or my weaknesses are.
You use the word "America" in the lyric "The World is On Fire." Given its emotional power, why was it necessary to have background singers chant it as well during the choruses?
Johnette Napolitano had come down to Kingsway for a while. Johnette and I had become friends two years earlier, and she wanted to sing on it -- she said, "I've got an idea." When she started doing it, I was like, "What the … ?" But once I allowed myself to let it happen, I thought it was beautiful. Actually, the word is used only twice in the chorus. Also, it's a folk song -- A, E, and D -- and the melody is borrowed heavily from "This Land is Your Land." I hope that's understood: It's a beat-up folk song, particularly in the melody.
'There's no difference between George W. Bush and Christina Aguilera.'
The Cancer of Pop Culture
What exactly is a folk song, as you define it?
There's a tradition of folk writers, and for them there's a lack of separation between the individual and politics. Folk songs have the ability to show you just how affected we are by our culture and the politics of our culture. They don't distinguish between them; oppression is a real, individual experience, just like love or anything else. That's what folk songs do; pop songs don't do that. "We Are the World" does not do that. It was a nice idea, but it's crap; it's not a folk song.
On the other hand, is "Feed the World" more from the folk tradition?
There's a big difference between writers, isn't there? Bob Geldof is a fine writer. And Quincy Jones is a great musician, I'm not disrespecting him, but that's not a folk song. That's a Coca-Cola commercial. It's powerful, but it's not a folk song. Folk songs don't differentiate between any experiences. What was that great Woody Guthrie song? "The Christmas Eve Massacre." I mean, that's folk music. "Feed the World" is a folk song. I would love to see a true folk song renaissance.
You don't think that one is going on today?
No, that's just goofy coffee-house shit. It's the same thing as the spoken-word crap. [Ryan affects nasal, sensitive voice.] "Under a cobalt blue sky …" I'm talking about something that's real, something that's political and social and has actual commentary. I'm not talking about socialism versus capitalism; I'm talking about how we're affected by a government that is run completely by people who are disassociated with real experience. It is a rare congressperson who grew up in the wrong part of town. It's money that perpetuates our political system, our medical system, our insurance system. We're affected by this because these people have no idea what it's like to be like you or me, to get in a car wreck and not have insurance. It's like George Bush, when he was running against Bill Clinton, going into a supermarket and waiting for the cashier to ring him up. Do you remember this?
Absolutely.
And he's going, "Oh, you're going to ring me up," as if he she should give it to him free because he's the president. And she's like, "I already did. I ran it over the scanner." And he's completely freaked out, like, "What's that?" These people are completely removed from our experience, and that's what folk music should be talking about right now.
Who can forget Ronald Reagan quoting Bruce Springsteen?
Well, that's unfortunate. There's just no difference today between politicians and pop stars. There's no difference between George W. Bush and Christina Aguilera. They've both got a team of people who are trying to show you how great they are. They know this pop shit is on the way out, so the people behind Christina Aguilera are trying to get her to talk about Bessie Smith. You think she's ever listened to a Bessie Smith record? I highly doubt it. But she's talking about Billie Holiday in interviews now. Initially, my ears perked; I'm like, "Really?" Well, wait a minute. Six months ago, all she could talk about was how Mariah Carey was her sole inspiration and influence.
Unlike folk artists, Christina Aguilera offers music as a way of escaping from rather than confronting real life.
What creeps me out about her is how quickly they become stars. I mean, you watch her first video, and she's kittening around, but you can see insecurity in her eyes. Then, in her second video, she's a little more into her role. By the third video, she's doing Whitney Houston's hand motions, looking right in the camera -- completely bought and sold. It's distressing. Sometimes I think we're living in dog years: Six months is three years, you know? It's like we're part of some sort of snowball that's headed straight to hell.
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