From: Victor Ortega Newsgroups: alt.guitar Subject: Re: Help! My action is hosed!! Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 09:36:49 -0500 DON'T FILE THE NUT. Or replace it. It sounds like the problem is in the curvature of the neck right around the 7th fret, so try loosening the truss rod just a bit more. If you get to the point where you've loosened the truss rod all the way and it doesn't help, you'll have to take the neck to a shop and have it put on a press to bend it back to normal. Or replace the neck. As an aside, the depth of the nut grooves only controls buzzing on the first fret (assuming the action has been set properly), so if your first fret is buzzing and everything else is fine, it means your nut has been grooved too deeply. The nut does play a minor part on the action (mainly on the action of the first five frets or so), and you should check this by holding one string down at the 12th fret and checking the space left between that string and the first fret. There should be a small amount of space. Victor Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Kent.Dalton) writes: > >I recently assembled a guitar from premade parts (Warmoth body and neck) >and so far have been having a great time tinkering with it... However, >now that it's complete, I'm having wicked problems with setting the >action on it properly. Basically, I'm getting a lot of problems with >buzzing all over the neck but mostly on the lower notes on the G and D >(which are closest to the neck due to the radius) unfortunately, >everything I've tried so far has been unable to correct it: > >At first I tried raising the action via the bridge but that didn't help >a whole lot and made the action way too high on the high notes. This >made me decide that adjusting the truss rod was necessary but after >fiddling with that and the bridge I'm still having the same problem. The >only thing I've thought of that I haven't tried is maybe the nut is >filed improperly, but I don't have an extra and don't want to go out and >get one and file it until I'm convinced that is the actual >problem... Anyone else have any ideas? > >It's weird because when I hold it next to my other guitar it looks like >I've got it set pretty close on the two (necks seem have similar radius >also) but the new one still buzzes badly on chords from 7th down to >open. Also Warmoth installed the frets so I'm pretty sure those are >done correctly. > >Any ideas appreciated!! From: larry@merakusa.com (Dr. Nuketopia) Newsgroups: alt.guitar Subject: The Myth of the Truss Rod. Date: 27 Jun 1995 23:04:52 GMT Organization: Merak Projects, Inc. (USA) I have never understood the mythology surrounding the truss rod. Lot's of myth and folklore surround the fine points of the truss rod, it's purpose and adjustment. The myth of the magic truss rod seems to be founded in the fact that not many people know what it does. The truss rod adjustment is very simple. All it does is change the relief in between the 4th and 9th frets on the neck. This adjustment only needs to be done occasionally in a guitars lifetime, or sometimes when making a substantial jump in string guages. The truss adjustment is a *very fine* adjustment, measured in thousandth's of an inch. It's the last part of a professional setup, after the frets are leveled and the bridge height is properly adjusted. To observe what the truss rod does, put capos on the 1st and the 12th fret. Then notice the gap between the string and the top of 6th and 7th frets. That distance is called the relief. There *should* be some gentle bowing through that area. One uses a feeler guage to measure this distance, which can vary between .003 to .015 inches or sometimes more. Tightening the truss rod decreases this distance, loosening increases the distance. Usually, no more than a 1/4 turn is needed to bring a neck into a comfortable adjustment. Try it yourself if you like, and observe what it does. When the relief is very small, the neck is often described as being "straight". A relief measuring .009 is very common, and is the factory setup on many guitars like stratocasters. Loosening the rod can eliminate string buzzes in the middle frets, adjusting too loose can make the action feel mushy through the middle frets. Tightening makes the action lower, faster and slightly easier to play but can cause fret buzzing. You have to strike a balance. Not all necks will adjust extremely straight, many buzzes can't be corrected by loosening. It is a very fine adjustment. Rules for truss adjustments: 1. It takes a couple of days for the adjustment to settle in sometimes. Make small changes, then measure the instrument in a few days to see how they stabilize. 2. Measure the relief in the instrument's playing position, strings in tune, using the desired string gauge. 3. Never start by tightening a truss rod, always loosen it first to see how tight it is. 4. Older instruments, collectables, adjusters that won't easily turn, or those that need more than small adjustment should always be taken to a pro. You could have neck problems that need other forms of correction. 5. Use a feeler gauge to actually measure the adjustment, don't just try to sight it in. 6. Half a turn, max. If you need more, go see someone who knows. If turning the adjuster doesn't make a measurable change, take it to a pro. 7. Read Dan Erlewine's book. Buy a straight edge and some feeler gauges. 8. Realize that careless adjustment or overtightening can ruin the instrument or even break the truss rod. Be careful. When in doubt, see a luthier. -- Dr. Nuketopia Technology Director of the World-Wide Monetary Conspiracy Opinions strictly reflect the party line Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.builders From: William Cloud Hicklin Subject: Re: Making an Ovation sound better Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:55:51 GMT ELET4 wrote: [snip] > > Making a saddle isn't that hard. Buy a bone blank from the guitar store > ($4 - $5). My bridge required a 1/8-inch blank. Sand down one face until > it fits snugly into the bridge slot. Then outline the contour of the old > saddle onto the blank. Sand the bottom perfectly flat, then file in the > contour of the top. It takes about an hour to make the saddle right. > > Good luck. Any factory guitar with a plastic saddle will be improved by replacing it with bone (or ivory, for non-PC traditionalists). Most guitar shops will do it for you. If you want to do it yourself, though, you might as well set the action while you're at it. Here's how: Thickness your saddle blank for a snug (not overtight) fit, with a SQUARE bottom; leave it somewhat too tall (about 2mm is good). String the guitar, bringing the strings close to concert pitch. Adjust the truss rod if the neck needs it. Now, take a 6" ruler marked in 64ths and measure the distance from the bottom of each string to the top of the 12th fret. Write down the clearances. For each string, compare your measurement to the desired clearance (standard heights are available in most references), and subtract. DOUBLE the difference (a change of 2/64 at the saddle, the end of the string, will yield a change of 1/64 at the 12th fret, the middle of the string). Loosen the strings, remove the saddle, and mark the doubled distance from the top of the saddle at each string position. using a scribe or a SHARP pencil, draw a line averaging the marks. This is your saddle top- file down and contour. Good luck! Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.builders Organization: MindSpring Enterprises From: Bill Hatcher To: Jeff Edwards Subject: Re: Neck Re-Set Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 00:32:28 +0000 Jeff Edwards wrote: > > My first attempt at building a guitar has gone slightly wrong and I now > believe (horror!!) that it needs a neck reset to rectify the problem. > I ended up in this awful situation by truing the neck and setting the > levels at the bridge, just as I am supposed to. I then applied yellow > glue to the dovetail and inserted it firmly in the sound box. > Then, without fully understand the subtle effects, I clamped the finger > board firmly to the spruce top, and did not realize that that would pull > the neck slightly out of the optimum alignment that I thought I had > established. Through the clamps and all the fittings, I didn't see Jeff. You do not need to repitch this neck. I can't believe that most of the information given to you from all these guys turned into a treatise on Franklin glue!!!!! You say that you lined everything up real nice and the problem came from the gluing down of the end of the fingerboard. All you have to do is take a heat lamp and heat the part of the board that goes over the top. Take a thin blade utensil and separate the board from the top. Now take a long section of nylon cord and wrap it around the back of the peghead. Attach it in the machine holes if you like. Bring the cord down the back of the guitar and loop it around the endpin and run it back up to the headstock, pull it tight and attach it. There are several ways to tighten the cord. NO.1 put a piece of wood between the two pieces and twist. No.2 Put a clamp in the middle of the neck and a curved piece of wood under the rope and clamp down. What you are going to do is pull the neck back a little and then reglue the end of the board. This will correct a great deal of pitch problem in a neck. It sounds like you are not off by very much. To pull the neck out of the dove tail for this small amount of correction is like pulling an engine out of a car to change the spark plugs@!! I have two Larivee guitars from 1977. Both of them developed a small pitch problem after about 15 years of hard professional use. The glue does a number called "cold creep". If you think about how the strings are pulling on a neck, the end of the fingerboard is always trying to slide forward. A few minutes in a hot car is all it takes some times. Other times the glue justs gives and little and the fingerboard slides forward and your neck pitch is out of wack!! I performed this repair and they both play better than when they were new!!!! Now to the glue thing. Much more important than the type of glue you used is the precise fit of your dovetail joint. If you got this right you can use no glue if you like. I worked on an older Gurian guitar the other day that is held together at the dovetail with pegs! Only the board is glued. This guitar was over 20 years old and the pitch was still perfect. Talk about easy to repitch if it needs it. Franklin Titebond glue is the accepted standard glue for guitar construction. If all your joints are correct then you can use this glue for EVERTHING! Yes there are all sorts of gee whiz stuff out there, but a $2 bottle of this glue is all you need. Before you go to the trouble to steam off the neck and possibly do some other damage, try this simple repair. It just might fix your problem. Regards. Bill Hatcher Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass,rec.music.makers.guitar Organization: University Wisconsin-Whitewater From: griffeyd@uwwvax.uww.edu (Dave Griffey) Subject: Re: Lemon oil fine on ebony? Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:26:48 -0600 In article <330B3B72.25DC@tiac.com>, Dan Stanley wrote: > Matthew Ivaliotes wrote: > > > > My Carvin instruction sheet specifies lemon oil. Any reason why I > > should question it? > > > > Matt I. > > I use lemon oil om rosewood, but NEVER on lacquered maple necks. It > ouhgta be ok on ebony. > > Dan Stanley I agree with Dan. I have used lemon oil on the FINGERBOARD of guitars for decades with no problem -- both rosewood and ebony (as you get older your guitars tend to have ebony fingerboards rather than rosewood). I would, however, take pains to keep it off the lacquer finish. Lemon oil is a petroleum distillate and eventually could affect the finish. I know lacquer solvents are a much higher distillate than mineral spirits but why take the chance. I always clean the fingerboard first and polish (I like Martin polish) the guitar last to be sure no lemon oil remains on the finished part of the instrument. BTW, I also use it on bridges of acoustic guitars. I know of nothing else that cuts through the crud on fingerboards as well as lemon oil. There's my $.02 worth. Dave -- Pax y Lux Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass,rec.music.makers.guitar Organization: INTERNET AMERICA Reply-To: cbbatey1@airmail.net From: cbbatey1@mail.airmail.net (C. Brian Batey) Subject: Re: Lemon oil fine on ebony? Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:01:24 GMT On Wed, 19 Feb 1997 23:52:49 GMT, bassguy@earthlink.net (Lobo) wrote: >giyengar@aec004.ve.ford.com (Giri Iyengar) wrote: > >>Matthew Ivaliotes writes: > >>> My Carvin instruction sheet specifies lemon oil. Any reason why I >>> should question it? > >>Yes. Your fretboard should not need any oiling, ever. Keep it clean >>and keep it in a friendly environment, i.e. reasonable temperature >>and humidity. That's all it needs. Oiling it doesn't do anything >>other than make it shiny for a while and attract dirt. > >So all that stuff about oiling from Carvin is just a big lie? I >wonder... > Not quite. Oiling the fingerboard helps to slow down the loss of moisture, and can make the neck more stable. As the fingerboard dries, it will tend to bow. This can cause instability in even the strongest of necks. Carvin isn't the only company that recommends this. Mike Pedulla put a lot of emphasis on this as a MAJOR part of regular maintenance, when I last spoke with him. lateron brianb Beware of those who know not that they know not for they will lead you into the darkness of their ignorance. - Anonymous - Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.bass,rec.music.makers.guitar Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc. From: admuse@earthlink.net (Kurt D. Zasadil) Subject: Re: Lemon oil fine on ebony? Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:52:25 -0800 In article <5eg3i9$cd7@paraguay.earthlink.net>, bassguy@earthlink.net (Lobo) wrote: Matthew Ivaliotes writes: < <>> My Carvin instruction sheet specifies lemon oil. Any reason why I <>> should question it? < <>Yes. Your fretboard should not need any oiling, ever. Keep it clean <>and keep it in a friendly environment, i.e. reasonable temperature <>and humidity. That's all it needs. Oiling it doesn't do anything <>other than make it shiny for a while and attract dirt. < , bassguy@earthlink.net (Lobo) writes: > giyengar@aec004.ve.ford.com (Giri Iyengar) wrote: > > >Matthew Ivaliotes writes: > > >> My Carvin instruction sheet specifies lemon oil. Any reason why I > >> should question it? > > >Yes. Your fretboard should not need any oiling, ever. Keep it clean > >and keep it in a friendly environment, i.e. reasonable temperature > >and humidity. That's all it needs. Oiling it doesn't do anything > >other than make it shiny for a while and attract dirt. > > So all that stuff about oiling from Carvin is just a big lie? I > wonder... No, I wouldn't call it a "big lie." It's just well-meaning but uninformed. Oiling fretboards is a remarkably common practice. Talk to some experienced luthiers, though, and they'll tell you it's bull. What woods need is a certain level of moisture, without which they dry up. Oil does not provide that moisture. Oil and water, right? They're different! :-) If you find that your fretboard is drying up (signs of warping, fret ends sticking out, etc.) you need to get a humidifier and make sure your guitar is kept in a room with about 50% humidity at 70%F or so, for a while. If the damage hasn't gone too far, it should sort itself out. Oil can clog pores in the wood. Not healthy. In short, treat wood like you wood treat (sorry, couldn't resist ) your skin. Cleanliness and moisture. No residue, no oil. ..Giri Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar Organization: Stoner Associates, Inc. From: "Mark Middleton" Subject: Re: Lemon oil fine on ebony? Date: 21 Feb 1997 19:04:33 GMT Matthew Ivaliotes <"afp-remove me for non-junk mail-"@america.net> wrote in article <330B8B07.7759@america.net>... > Giri Iyengar wrote: > > > > Yes. Your fretboard should not need any oiling, ever. Keep it clean > > and keep it in a friendly environment, i.e. reasonable temperature > > and humidity. That's all it needs. Oiling it doesn't do anything > > other than make it shiny for a while and attract dirt. > > One more thing: supposing it *does* get too dry, for instance. Is > oiling then any good, or is it just a matter of getting the humidity > back up and readjusting the instrument? Or is it all I can do to avoid > big variance in conditions in the first place? > > Matt I. > Matt, Giri is right. You don't need to do any oiling. An article in Fine Woodworking several years back scientically rated the ability of of wood finishes to resist the the movement of moisture in wood. It was found that the best moisture barrier was hot dipped pariffin and two part epoxy marine paint, neither of which are suitable for guitar necks. The worst moisture barrier for wood was an oil or wax finish. Linseed oil and lemon oil and past wax provided absolutly no protection against moisture. I don't know why it is that people feel that they must rub something into the wood to preserve it in some way. We have all seen these furniture polish adds on TV showing people rubbing copious quantites of all sorts of concotions all over the wooden surfaces of their home. Please bear in mind that the sole purpose of these advertisements is to sell you copius quantities of these concoctions. The furniture polish companies would like to tell you that you can use it on your floors and walls even rub it on the dog and it makes a great desert topping, if they thought that they could get away with it. Ebony is a fairly hard dimensionally stable wood. The only way you have of knowing when it gets "too" dry is when it starts to shrink and crack. If you have allowed your instrument to dry out to that point, the cracked fingerboard is going to be the least of your worries. Everything else on your guitar is going to be cracked. Your fingerboard will probably be the last thing to go. Clarinet bore oil may provide some immediate protection if you are prone to spilling things on your guitar neck or if you slobber a lot when you play. Its purpose is to protect the bore of a wooden clarinet while it is being played. The excess moisture will bead up and can be wiped off easily. No self respecting clarinet player would put a good wooden instrument away without drying it first. A guitar player should do the same thing. Wipe the strings and fingerboard with a soft cloth after each use. An occasional wipe down with a slightly damp cloth or with a commercial guitar cleaner like Martin of Gibson guitar polish if it gets really cruddy. Humidify the guitar in the winter and dehumidify it in the summer and you will be doing all that you can do to maintain and protect your instrument. Cheers, Mark M.